All the posts about primers has gotten me to thinking...
Huey
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 05:02 (2053 days ago)
And when WB or I post that, Gary's blood pressure goes up.
But, I've been reloading 41 years this month. Some will think that's forever. JT will say I'm a novice. Both will be right relatively speaking.
Thinking about all the questions made me realize that I've never gotten a bad primer.
I use whatever brand I can find. I've bought Wolf Brand for $11/1000 and lots of Magtech for $12/1000. They've worked just as well as Winchester, CCI or Federal.
I do have some limits on certain cartridges. The Weatherby Cartridges, 50 Alaskan, 50-70, etc only see Federal Magnum Rifle Primers. But, beyond that I have done some silly stuff.
Lots of my 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 25-20, 32-20, etc loading gets SP or SMP Primers. I've never had an issue with that. Small Pistol Primers are usually cheaper and easier to get.
I bought a case of CCI SRM Primers from a guy who couldn't unload them. Few cartridges require them. But, not requiring them DOES NOT mean you can't use them. I've loaded thousands of 223s with them, zero issues.
Common sense always applies. But, what books are written about and the real world isn't always synchronized.
A friend bought some Winchester 9mm ammo
Jim Taylor
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 06:03 (2053 days ago) @ Huey
We were shooting and he had one that failed to fire. I took it home and pulled the bullet. This is what I found ----
![[image]](images/uploaded/202008201302145f3e74562d3bb.jpg)
The primer had no priming compound in it. Not there is no sign of it being fired.
![[image]](images/uploaded/202008201303195f3e749716331.jpg)
Never had that happen myself but I have seen it several times.
I've had factory ammo not work too. Also, have had brass...
Huey
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 06:13 (2053 days ago) @ Jim Taylor
From the factory that had no flash hole in the primer pocket. But, so far no bad primers.
Occasionally I limit some brass to certain primers because of how tight/loose certain brands fit.
I saw this myself, not that anyone would need to do it but..
WB
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 07:36 (2053 days ago) @ Jim Taylor
This guy on Youtube made a video where he took some "fired" Large Pistol primers and removed the anvil. He took some powder he scraped from "strike anywhere" matches and made a slurry with acetone. After hammering the "dent" out of the primer cup he doped it with the compound slurry he made. The acetone evaporated and left behind the powder. I don't remember if he reinstalled the anvil wet or dry. Then he loaded it into a .45 ACP case and fired it over a chronograph with a standard ball load. They shot fine, just a few for proof it COULD be done in a most dire and extreme situation.
Another video and now a marketed kit showed reloading .22 LR and .22 WMR rimfire cases! It's amazing what a man can do. Ditto this nut making a 12 ga. shotgun from a 3/4 pieve of conduit and a 1"
I wrote a pamphlet about it ..
Jim Taylor
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 07:40 (2053 days ago) @ WB
SURVIVAL RELOADING FOR HANDGUNS
Kindle - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086H1MQ1H
Paperback - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086PRKVNG
Ive never tried it but it might be fun to say you did
WB
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 08:08 (2053 days ago) @ Jim Taylor
melt some lead over the coals of a hot campfire. I'll have to substitute oak for buffalo chips but you get the picture. To see how hard it really is to maintain 650-700 deg. for a campfire lead pot. Just for a goof.
I did it in Africa ... used a tin cooking pan
Jim Taylor
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 10:28 (2053 days ago) @ WB
to melt the lead in, a big spoon for a ladle, wood fire and later charcoal fire. Cast .380" diameter balls for shooting in the Wrist Rocket.
Really neat! I’ve never tried.
WB
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 11:23 (2053 days ago) @ Jim Taylor
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primers
Alcorn
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 06:07 (2053 days ago) @ Huey
small pistol CCI spm
Large pistol CCI lpm
Large rifle under 70gr. of powder Federal 210
Large rifle over 70gr. of power Federal 215
small rifle Rem. 71/2
Twice in my 40 years of loading have I had primer issues
WB
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 06:34 (2053 days ago) @ Huey
Once with CCI Small Rifle primers which they make millions as they have a sizeable military contract, likely the world over. I never nailed it down but I was working with the .240 GNR and seeing pressure signs way, way too early. This was back during that big primer scare several year's back. Companies were running 24/7 and we shot what we got. I was loading beginning 6mm TCU load data in the more capacious .240 GNR case and getting some primer cratering when I KNEW it was not right. A swap to some Remington Small Rifle BR primers (I was blessed to find them - #7-1/2) fixed the issue. As far as I could tell it was that one single lot. Maybe the temper on the cups was different. A freak incident. Late ones are fine. Simply fantastic cartridge too.
The other was some strange PMC (Eldorado)Large Pistol "Heavy Metal Free" primers. I bought a large cashe from a friend, also during that shortage. Some Small Pistol versions too but they were perfectly fine. We were so glad to find any primers at all I didn't care at the time. The LP gave me misfires. They all popped but I got squibs! I even experimented with different faster burning pistol powders, namely HERCO and still got ping/pow results in .45 Colt. I saw huge swings in velocity, some went supersonic and others I could see the bullet like a BB gun. Totally crazy! It's not the powder either. It really is strange. I still have a bunch and will test with Bullseye next. The primers were supposedly made for shooting indoor ranges and minimized exposure to "heavy metals" during firing. I'm hoping to find a use for them to finally use them up.
Two lots of primers out of who knows how many in 40 years is not bad. Of course odd adventure follows me around, I've come to expect it, even embrace it to gain knowledge.
I have a box of 1960's CCI Large Pistol Primers that fell off a bench onto my shop floor about 3 yrs ago. I have not picked them up but will get on my hands and knees to reach them soon. It's not a climate controlled area either. I used the other box of them to fire forming cases and every single one popped fine. I have no doubt when I fish those others out they will too. Some folks fret over every little thing, I'd go nuts doing that. I go nuts listening to them worry over things. Man no one gets out alive, enjoy life and let your freak flag fly. Be yourself.
the only primer problems I have had thru the
Gary Reeder
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 12:28 (2052 days ago) @ Huey
years is with my 410 GNR and 429 GNR. Both use the 454 Casull brass. The problem is the 454 brass uses a small rifle primer which is a hard primer and if my revolver has an action job, which they all do, it sometimes has a misfire. If we use small pistol magnum primers the problem pretty much goes away. The Freedom Arms 454 Casull doesn't have the misfire problem using small rifle primers as it has a fairly heavy hammer fall. But any revolver with a light hammer fall as part of the action job can have that problem.
Recently Dick Williams brought me a small batch of 454 Casull brass with large primer pockets. I keep those for our test firing here. The problem is the guns will have a full action job and the customer will be using standard small rifle primers if he buys primed brass. In my red reloading manual I recommend the magnum small pistol primer and that pretty much eliminates the problem.
That is the main problem I have had thru the years with my custom guns and their primers.
Hey Gary, ever try a lighter firing pin spring?
Asa
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Thursday, August 20, 2020, 17:08 (2052 days ago) @ Gary Reeder
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several times. Made no difference.
Gary Reeder
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 17:47 (2052 days ago) @ Asa
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Terry Murbach showed years ago that it is the hard whack
Jim Taylor
[subject]
Thursday, August 20, 2020, 17:51 (2052 days ago) @ Asa
that works the best. Primers that are hit harder light the powder better.
He used a S&W revolver that has a leaf mainspring. He ran some loads through the chronograph with the spring set at full strength. Then he began lightening the spring tension. The lower the tension, the lower the velocities. After a point of lowering you start getting misfires.
The following is a note from Mic McPherson on primer strikes.
In the day, when ballistics labs used manually fired universal receivers, every ballistician eventually got bored and, instead of gently pulling the lanyard until the hoop slipped off the spur on the rotating hammer (very similar to a Colt SAA hammer design, when it rotated far enough, the spur would not hold the lanyard loop and the hammer fell), they yanked the lanyard. Every time, when they did that, they noticed two things:
They recorded higher velocity
They recorded lower extreme spread and standard deviation in any long string of shots
Note that the Universal receiver has a light hammer with a 90-grain firing pin and a hammer spring similar to a typical Ruger SA, give or take. It just does not have much striker energy. The Striker tip is, however, smaller than a typical gun -- about 0.625", as opposed to about 0.70" for a typical modern gun, so it always set off the primer, despite marginal striker energy.
Note also the testing that our late friend Terry did with revolvers where he tested progressively lighter striker springs and found progressively lower muzzle velocity.
These two are related.
When you yank the lanyard on a Universal receiver, it rotates the hammer fast enough so that as the lanyard comes free, the energy of rotation in the hammer causes it to continue to rotate against the spring and therefore compress the spring significantly more than when the hammer is rotated slowly until the lanyard slips off. And, the design allows the hammer to rotate much farther than the slip-off point.
So, we have proof that more striker energy results in more velocity and more ballistic uniformity. This is because of how primers work. Compression of the pellet compresses gas contained in microscopic pockets found throughout the pellet. Compressing a gas adiabatically heats it. If compressed fast enough, that heat cannot conduct and radiate into the surrounding material fast enough to keep the temperature of the gas below the ignition temperature of the surrounding material -- identical to how a diesel engine works. So, if you compress the pellet more violently, you get more ignition centers within the compressed portion of the pellet.
More ignition centers means that the pellet burns faster and that means that it burns in place more completely (less unburned material blown more-or-less uselessly through the flash hole). That means more hot gas is generated to do a better job of penetrating into the charge and directly igniting more of the granules.