you young guys take heed. Shooting the real big

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Wednesday, September 18, 2019, 17:58 (1681 days ago)

thumpers may be exciting to you and your friends but go easy on them. Whatever you do today and for the next few years will come back to bite you in the butt later. In years past I did all the shooting and it was not uncommon for my guys to load big caliber revolvers like 475 Maximum, 500 Maximum, 500 S&W and such and hand them to me for me to test fire them and sight them in. This would go on for a couple of hours, gun after gun. The Contenders and Encores in even larger calibers were mixed in with the bunch. At the time I felt I was pretty invincible. The recoil hurt but the sting and thump went away after a while.

8 weeks ago a local surgeon who specializes in hand injuries told me that 30 years of heavy recoiling handguns had done a lot of nerve damage to my right hand. I had 2 surgeries that he says will bring most of the use of the hand back, eventually. I started doing a little bit of shooting this week on a 257 Raptor Contender barrel. And it is not there yet. The cuts were in the base of my right hand and at the base of my 3rd finger. Even the recoil of the 257 Raptor and a 120 grain bullet hurt like hell. I have about 10 days or so to work with the hand before the HHC, so I am doing my best to get where I can shoot at least a couple of rounds at the hunt.

The gist of this whining is even if it is exciting to shoot the big stuff, keep it to a minimum. You may not think you are doing damage to the hand but you are, little by little. The nerves in the hand go pretty quick. And it takes a good while to get the hand back to normal, if ever.
My worry now is next May I have a very special hunt in Africa and the biggest round I can come up with in a handgun will be needed. I have that second Cape Buffalo hunt and possibly an elephant, if my PH John gets a permit. I used my 450 GNR loaded to max with a 500 grain Hornady DGX bullet for my Cape Buffalo last year and will hopefully use the same gun and load for the next buffalo. For Elephant John said I need a super hot 416 caliber round in my encore using a 400 grain solid. He recommended the 416 caliber rather than the 458, which sort of surprised me. John said my 416 GNR based on the 50 Alaskan isn't hot enough for a good clean kill so I am working on developing another 416 caliber round. This one is based on a 50-110 case necked to 416. It is the 417 GNR and Sean is doing the testing right now and he says it is a real thumper.

So again all my heavy recoiling rounds shot thru 30 years or more may keep me from completing my final bucket list. We will see. I have a bit over 7 months to get the hand ready. So when you shoot some of the heavy recoiling rounds, go easy and keep the shooting to a minimum. Remember, we aren't invincible.

Not a big game Hunter by any imagination, but...

Huey
[subject]
Wednesday, September 18, 2019, 18:03 (1681 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

Have always read when bullet diameter gets too large, penetration suffers? No doubt John knows his business. Hopefully you can find out if this is so and let us know.

Maybe shoot with the other hand?

Woody
[subject]
Thursday, September 19, 2019, 16:46 (1680 days ago) @ Huey

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not for dangerous game like Cape Buff or elephant

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Friday, September 20, 2019, 10:59 (1679 days ago) @ Woody

Too much chance of a bad shot that could get someone hurt or killed.

Plan B

WB
[subject]
Wednesday, September 18, 2019, 20:13 (1680 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

Your 7mm GNR is one of the most useful and under rated in your lineup. It also has a very unusual trait when used in conjunction with one of your "chambered brakes" that is actually has no notable recoil at all. It has to be experienced to believe. My much heavier and un-braked .256 Raptor bucks pretty good in comparison with only a 100 gr. bullet.

[image]

A well constructed 140 gr. 7mm bullet at around 2400 fps is basically equal to the old 7X57 rifle that has killed literally everything in the world, including Elephants. It has the penetration with the right bullets. Coupled with the shootability and precise placement possible it NEEDS to be in your African kit, just in case. I favor the 120 for deer sized game and figure the 140 would be better for all round bigger stuff. It just works. I think I could possibly manage it with a sprained wrist, provided it had that wonderful little brake!

Long day, ".256 Falcon".

WB
[subject]
Wednesday, September 18, 2019, 20:15 (1680 days ago) @ WB

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WANNA SEE MY X-RAYS?

JT
[subject]
Wednesday, September 18, 2019, 21:05 (1680 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

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I was thinking about you John when i typed that up

gary reeder
[subject]
Wednesday, September 18, 2019, 22:58 (1680 days ago) @ JT

knowing that you probably have shot double what I have over the years.

this means Shane is right behind you, hope

Lynn
[subject]
Thursday, September 19, 2019, 06:43 (1680 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

it all works out. Excited for you

I didn’t get the chance to get that far. LOL

Blake
[subject]
Thursday, September 19, 2019, 09:41 (1680 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

Arthritis and Raynaud's got to me before the 510 did. Still can handle a full house 410GNR. Discovering the G2 in the 361 Falcon, paired with my old 41GNR#2 Wyoming Hunter should get me through my senior years for all my hunting needs. ;0)

Penetration vs. velocity... what is the balance

MQ1
[subject]
Thursday, September 19, 2019, 20:41 (1679 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

Gary,

What are your thoughts on the sweet spot between heavy bullets (or hard cast) and velocity? I know that at some point extra velocity just increases recoil and has a negative impact on penetration.

I’ve never hunted anything bigger than an elk, but I’ve been seriously impressed with the penetration of something as small as a 260gr hardcast .44 magnum traveling relatively slow at less than 1500 fps.

MQ1

240-260 gr at 1000-1200fps will take care of

Asa
[subject]
Friday, September 20, 2019, 09:33 (1679 days ago) @ MQ1

most duties as far as medium game.

Penetration

Todd C
[subject]
Friday, September 20, 2019, 18:51 (1679 days ago) @ Asa

Cartridge: 38 WCF
Bullet: 280 grain WLNGC
Firearm: Custom Revolver 6.5" barrel
Powder: VV110 25.0 Grains ( not recommended )
Velocity: 1649 fps
Energy: 1691 FPE
TKO: 26.4
Penetration in wet paper 48"

Cartridge: 38 WCF
Bullet: 280 Grain WLNGC
Firearm: Custom Revolver 6.5" barrel
Powder: H4198 25.0 Grains ( cases fell by gravity from chambers)
Velocity: 1226
Energy: 935
TKO: 19.6
Penetration in same wet paper 47"

Difference of 45% increase in energy
Difference of 2% increase in penetration.

So it begs the question," Where did all my power go?"

Richard Fairburn of Police One magazine, assistant to Dr. Martin Fackler on the FBI standardization tests, finds that properly soaked newsprint is within a single percentage point of duplicating actual meat.

The purpose of the above is not to incite an argument, just stating the results of testing. The resultant depth of penetration in medium is nearly identical but does nothing for the account of increased energy. Richard Fairburn is mentioned as he has actual lab experience and is had a very unbiased attitude toward results and has done the correlation between soaked paper and meat.

Penetration does show that increased velocity doesn't actually increase penetration by the same margin as energy. However that does nothing for illustrating the stretching or tearing of tissue due to velocity or bullet shape, nor the resultant elusive "shock" that may or may not be transmitted to the animal.

The best thing I can tell you is this. Like real estate. Success is based on Location, location, location. Shooting around the edges is not equal to applying well placed shots in the vitals. So, deliver your shot to the cardiovascular plumbing (or electrical wiring if you choose) not the wastewater plumbing. Choose a load that shoots well, and that YOU can shoot well, and thus apply accurately and repeatedly if necessary.

When you do, you will enjoy a great trophy and a great table fare. The rest is great for musing on, but not a hill to die on. Shoot more, argue less, eat better.

Hand cannon pain

Tim Dollar
[subject]
Friday, September 20, 2019, 09:09 (1679 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

I know but I’m still looking for a 510GNR or 500 Linebaugh.

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