The injustice, the .350 Legend...

WB
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 09:31 (65 days ago)

First off the name; Legend. It just does not work for me. Hornady, Winchester, Remington, Swift, Speer whatever but "Legend", I don't see it. It rings goofy or gimmick to me from the get go. I can appreciate it for what it is, a basically straight walled, rimless, .35 cal. cartridge that is very compact and useful. JUST LIKE IT WAS IN 1907, and up through at least 1957. Some coin it as a "rimless .357 Maximum" duh, what do you think the .351 WSL was? OK, the .351 was never a revolver cartridge, I'll give them that one.

I have read about a dozen very descriptive and detailed articles on the cartridge now. Not ONE has mentioned the .351 Winchester Self-loading or the 1905/1907 rifles that made it happen. Not even in casual passing! Today this "new" .350 is touted as the next big thing in the AR platform and spilling out into other medium game roles. What a terrible injustice not to pay homage to the round and even concept that spawned it in the first place. No matter if the guys marketing it now don't understand that or not. On article mentioned the 1894 Winchester in comparison (even that a stretch) and went off in another direction, my head about exploded.

Hey, I think it is a grand idea. I like it. I played with a wonderful blow-back action M1907 Winchester making my shooting ammo from 5.56 NATO cases with the necks cut out. I even used .38 Special Carbide dies to make the stuff. Worked perfectly. The only difference is the factory spec of .352" bullets on the .351 WSL. I actually shot cast .355" from mine for some time. I used forgiving alloy bullets from 125 -200 gr. with great success.

The M1907 rifle was used by the French in WWI for Balloonist, too many Prisons and Police agencies to mention. It was not used on the Bonnie & Clyde ambush as some think, that was the Remington M8 rifle. Sportsmen all over used it for everything from South American Crocodiles, Black Bear, and of course Deer. Remington cataloged ammo up to the late 1970's. The .351 WSL is almost identical to the .350 Legend and serves the exact same purposes that it did, more than adequately, some 112 years ago! The Winchester rifle production spanned exactly 50 years, from 1907 to 1957. It is so true and ringing in my ears, the wisdom of Solomon; "nothing new under the sun". Also his admonishment to learn history or be doomed to repeat it. Can modern gun writers truly be that ignorant?

Would still buy a Mini-14 in 350 Legend...

Huey
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 09:35 (65 days ago) @ WB

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Hey, like I said I like it! Great idea. And before anyone

WB
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 09:56 (65 days ago) @ Huey

else gets the idea, I want credit for saying the next step is a great idea too. Although it will probably go the same way it did in 1910. The .401 WSL would be cool too, actually 0.406" diameter). I happen to have one of those myself. I make ammo from .41 Magnum brass (a bit short) or .414 SM, as well as 7.26X39 blow out straight. It was never as popular as the .351 WSL, despite being supposedly issued to Russian Troops in WWI. Why the Russians got the .401 and French the .351 must be one heck of a marketing story.

Make it a 10mm/.400 Legend or .410 Legend but it will mimic the .401 WSL of 1910 fame.

I am not sure if Huey is your Daddy or the

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:30 (65 days ago) @ WB

other way around. but both of you are several bricks shy a full load.

Right on Huey

Terry
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:40 (65 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

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I'll keep hoping for a .358 Stanley... (sigh)

meh
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:47 (65 days ago) @ Terry

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Mark my word, soon a 10mm rimmed so you don't have

WB
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:59 (65 days ago) @ meh

to use those "clips" in your 10mm auto revovler. THEN, boys and girls, the new "invention" will be the long forgotten brainchild of the banished and derided George Herter! But only you and I will know the real skinny.

you forgot the 10mm in a single action doesn't need moon

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 13:03 (65 days ago) @ WB

clips. And we already have the 10mm Magnum which works fine in the rechambered S&W 610 revolver.

I have my eye on that 10 mag., 4 my 10 DA.

WB
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 13:19 (65 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

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LOL, I resemble that remark. I guess something

WB
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:53 (65 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

new has to be useful or interesting to me personally, to catch my fancy. I like the old .351 and really enjoyed playing with it. It's sort of a BIG .30 Carbine but .35 cal. That makes it a bit more useful, although I know many who have killed deer with the .30 Carbine. Itself a WWII adaptation of the .32 WSL, which was a semi-auto adaptation of the .32-20 Win. So we've come full circle yet again!

Straight wall cases and .35 cal. can't be all that bad. The straight walls mean it feeds from a straight magazine, no need for the AK banana mag profile. I cannot see it feeding from AR 5.56 mags with that internal rib on each side. I HATE that rib.

I'm against most things that throw my brass into the weeds, at least for my own uses. I have a passing interest in that .350 in a Ruger American. Those cheap little guns strike my fancy and I'll own one some day. Just not sure what caliber.

I am sure the 350 Legend has some merit, and some

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 11:40 (65 days ago) @ WB

usefulness for hunters in the states that require a straight wall cartridge, but my problem is the BS they put forth in their ads. Why not just tell the truth that is a new cartridge that is good for deer and such and is beneficial to hunters in those states with that special requirement. Just like the ads for the various short magnums that pretty much wiped Winchester out. They were total BS. One ad in a dealer magazine said the 350 legend was the most powerful straight wall cartridge ever developed. That one will take some thinking.

See, even the old .401 WSL smokes it.

WB
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 12:41 (65 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

My money for the most powerful straight wall case is the .500 N.E.

there are a lot that will beat the 350 Legend. How about the

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 13:22 (65 days ago) @ WB

44 mag or the 45 Long Colt. Or if you want to stay with pure rifle cartridges what about the 444 or 45-70. And there are more too.

and the 445 Super Mag

charlie A.
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 13:23 (65 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

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405 Winchester?

steve todd
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 14:05 (65 days ago) @ charlie A.

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Me too.

JPL
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 17:54 (65 days ago) @ Huey

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WB you have to remember you are one of only 3 in the

Gary Reeder
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:28 (65 days ago) @ WB

the world that remember the 1907 Dowop. And one of none that give a flying quack about old cartridges that are dead and have been for more years than you have been around. Just like the 401 Herters Powermag. DEAD and GONE! Let it die peacefully. You cannot breath life back into a mediocre cartridge.

The young people just believe the stuff the gun magazines put out. I was really disappointed in the new GUNS magazine when the new head man there just did a big article on the 350 legend. He said it was more powerful than the 30-30.The cartridge is (if I remember right) .024 longer than the 357 Maximum. About the thickness of a business card. so saying it is more powerful than a 30-30 is a bit of a stretch. I guess knowing John Taffin and how honest he is tends to make me compare other gun writers to him. So far this new editor doesn't make the grade. And I am a bit disappointed in GUNS magazine for getting on the 350 Legend bandwagon.

I've spent most of my 40 years of reloading being bashed..

Huey
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:40 (65 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

So, one more time is no big deal. I've spent most of it trying to resurrecting cartridges of low popularity.

I'll spend more money building a great 38-40, 25-20, etc than I would a modern magnum.

Learn a long time ago to do what I enjoy and disregard the critical opinions.

I see the point, they actually said the new guns serve as

WB
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:45 (65 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

the old .30-30 did. Perhaps they are unwittingly implying the .30-30 is dead too?!

It's shocking to find myself old, and full of antiquated knowledge, that is not found of some practical use. We are becoming obsolete by other's choice.

Gunwriters have tried for decades to kill the 30-30 & 45-70.

Huey
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:53 (65 days ago) @ WB

Many attempts to do so, but all have failed. 307 Win and 308 Marlin have both crashed and burned. The 450 Marlin is on life support too.

My sanity was questioned recently for buying a Ruger #1 in 30-30. I can understand that, but enjoy the rifle. The old cartridge is no weakling with modern powders and bullets. Worked then, works now...

May have to whack a hog at HHC with my 30 30

Derek
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 16:43 (65 days ago) @ Huey

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Still alive and kickin in some circles!

401 P'Mag
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 16:49 (65 days ago) @ Gary Reeder

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Just ordered my grandson a Ruger American

Terry
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 10:29 (65 days ago) @ WB

ranch rifle with the camo stock and muzzle brake in 350 legend. Should be a good deer and hog gun. Also ordered 2 boxes Hornady 170 gr interlock spire point ammo.

It cannot compare to the

Sid R
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 13:55 (65 days ago) @ WB

Marlin 336 35 Remington or the .357 Maxi

I think they wanted a .35 AR round with the same

WB
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 15:39 (65 days ago) @ Sid R

capacity and on the 5.56 platform with more punch than a .300 AAC. As I mentioned it's basically a .35 Carbine round, mimic of the .30 M1 Carbine round.

Nothing wrong with that, just be realistic like Gary said.

Low volume for suppression, economy, more bullet weight, low recoil. Lots to like, great wife or kid round. If you get a break for it being a straight walled ctg. like in MS, a real boon.

350 Legend downfall

Randy Barnett
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 15:52 (65 days ago) @ WB

For whatever reason, they load the cartridges with 355” diameter bullets. People who have tried to reload using standard 357” pistol bullets have discovered that they will not chamber. The specs they registered with SAAMI show a 358” diameter + 000” - 003”.

Stuff the .357 through a Lee .355 sizer die.

Darryl T.
[subject]
Tuesday, September 10, 2019, 18:12 (65 days ago) @ Randy Barnett

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I suggested that but,

Randy Barnett
[subject]
Wednesday, September 11, 2019, 11:19 (64 days ago) @ Darryl T.

The experts on Facebook said that couldn’t be done. I didn’t bother telling them that I’ve sized 410” down to 400” with no issues.

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